Most valuable lightbulb damaged in the mail?

[Yoshi]

I often wonder if the other collectors who buy those mega rare $100+ lightbulbs do get their lightbulbs intact? Because sometimes the seller is too stupid and mails the bulb via Parcel Post inside a tiny box, even though you instructed him to mail in a large box, via Priority Mail. I HATE IT so much when they do that!!! Do they really think that an antique lightbulb can survive that?! I have yet to give negative feedback to a seller who mailed a bulb to me this way, and incredibly would still NOT give a refund. (btw my bulb didn't cost $100! It costed far less). Well, enough of my story, let's hear yours. How do you prefer your lightbulbs to be packed & shipped? Do you give the seller custom instructions for doing so? I do. Which antique incandescent bulbs do you think are more prone to breakage? I think blackened (but working) 100w cage filament mazdas are the most fragile of all, and I think unused carbon fil. bulbs are highly resistant to rough handling. Let me hear what you think.

[byronleer]

I have had very good luck overall, but usually insist on a real good packing job.
But to my surprise, the to times I had working bulbs arrive with a broken filament, they were carbons. The one that hurt the most was a nice green one. I did have it insured, and the postman did refund the money after a couple months of crap, but I still would have rather had the bulb!
The other was also a smaller round type carbon that I shipped in working order, and packed it VERY well, only to hear that it arrived broken. It was mark fragile and all but I think they throw those packages around anyhow.
You could always send a cab to pick them up! haha.
regards, Byron

[Tim]

Here's some good advice that I've extracted from the thread located here:
http://bulbcollector.com/forum/index.php?topic=256.0

 

One of my great disappointments was getting a scarce tantalum lamp in the mail that had been wrapped tightly in bubblewrap and foam peanuts. Vibration during travel had caused the heavy internal structure to break in several places and all the filaments were fragmented too. Please DON'T send old and delicate bulbs this way, especially if the inside structures are massive...think of the physics...energy will break any structure at its weakest point. Both bubble wrap and peanuts transmit vibration very well. What I recommend is padding that will let the whole bulb absorb the shocks. A thick layer (at least 3-4 inches, even better if more) of soft cotton wool or polyfill wrapped around the bulb -- or nice tangled excelsior or shredded paper -- or at least gently crumpled newspaper. Plus double boxing with the outer box being of quality cardboard. It's appalling how crushable many cartons are now, especially from cheap goods. -Chris Kocsis

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Tim
Kilokat's Antique Light Bulb Site
Mountain Dew Collectibles, Volume I

[This message has been edited by tim (edited August 05, 2003).]

[Chris W. Millinship]

You all know my damaged-bulb story ( http://repaired.bulbmuseum.net  ).  

I remember that advice posted up there, and have tried to edumacate my sellers since then. The folloiwing is an extract from the "standard message" I send to folks who I`ve bought bulbs from (ebay).

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As they are certainly quite fragile I would appreciate it if you could pack extra securely for the journey here. In my past experience of sending bulbs overseas, the best thing to pack round them inside the box is shredded paper, with a soft padding of something like cotton wool round the bulbs themselves. This seems to work better than bubble-wrap or foam peanuts at absorbing vibrations that could damage the fragile insides.
-

Those who have followed my advice, have arrived safely. The rest who ignore me, mostly survive OK too including some incredibly bad packaging that somehow survived. But now and then the odd one still comes through broken. Given the fact that they`d survived so long up until then, each one of those is kind of sad in a way.....

 


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Visit the Bulb Museum!
e-mail: curator(at)bulbmuseum(dot)net.

[Chris W. Millinship]

Just re-read that old topic. I forgot that initially I was a bubblewrap advocate! Oh what a fool I was......


 



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Visit the Bulb Museum!
e-mail: curator(at)bulbmuseum(dot)net.

[Tim]

I used bubble wrap for years and rarely had any problems but my bubble supply has long been exhausted.  I've switched over to the cotton wooly stuff now.  You can get large bags of it for under $5 at the local Walmart.  Similar material should be available overseas as well.  Anyway it works great and it's cheap!

As for bad experiences, I've had a few.  One that comes to mind is a tungar bulb I got in the mail many years ago.  The bulb was simply placed in a large cardboard box with NO packing material whatsoever!  Amazingly the thing survived despite its rolling back and forth in the empty box.  Some people don?t seem to have a clue?


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Tim
Kilokat's Antique Light Bulb Site
Mountain Dew Collectibles, Volume I

[Yoshi]

I think it would be a good idea if we could make a summary of all the lightbulbs that we have received damaged in the mail, maybe we could learn more about what bulbs break more often? The lightbulbs I can remember a.t.m. that I did receive broken were:

1. 1910's 100w 110v bryan marsh mazda lightbulb, moderately blackened, cage fil. $10
2. 1910's 100w 110v peerless mazda top frosted lightbulb, nos, cage fil. $22.50
3. late 1910's 100w 115v W mazda lightbulb (coiled fil.), used but clean $15
4. 1900's small 3 loop carbon fil. lightbulb, nos $17
5. nalco 220v lightbulb with an unusual filament, apparently unused $10
6. flat red painted tipless mazda lightbulb, cage fil. $1
7. Columbia Thomson Houston lightbulb, mint condition $32.50

Two of these lightbulbs still work because their filaments overlap, but the filaments are broken nonetheless. In these two cases it is impossible to tell if the bulb was damaged during shipping or was already damaged before shipment, because they were being sold as "working" bulbs, and they do work... and, the Thomson Houston bulb has an intact filament but the carbon paste on one end has fallen off, therefore the filament is no longer attached to it.

Speaking about the worst packaging I have seen... My Columbia TH lightbulb (bulb #7 on the list) was packed in a small cube shaped priority mail box with ROCK SOLID shredded paper... Precisely what I told the seller NOT to do... Even worse, the person who sold it to me became "Not a registered user" so I didn't get my refund, nor was I able to give him appropiate feedback. I also got a tipless cobalt blue cage fil. mazda lightbulb that was shipped in a large box but with super tight heavy carton paper packaging, and most amazingly the bulb survived! I also remember getting a low voltage, used edison mazda lightbulb that was packed between two loose pieces of bed foam. The bulb slipped off and was moving freely inside the box; The bulb did survive! I also got a bulb that was taped to the inside of the box but with no peanuts or anything to fill the empty space! Bulb #1 was squeezed into a small cube shaped priority mail box and shipped all across the U.S... Why are some people so stupid? I can't believe he actually thought that a large, used antique lightbulb would arrive intact after that. He got his well deserved neg. feedback for being so dumb.

When the bulb to be shipped is either too expensive, too rare, or too fragile, I often demand that sellers ship the way I want them to. In these cases, I don't send payment until I am sure that the seller will indeed pack the bulb like I want him to. Even with these drastic measures, some sellers screw up, but most of the time the bulbs arrive intact anyway. It's real sad hearing about a tantalum bulb getting damaged so badly in the mail, those bulbs are so great...   Was it a Westinghouse 40w tantalum lightbulb that sold for $277 in october 2002? It is very sad to see a working old lightbulb go just because of some ignorant person... quote from a pea-brained seller on eBay who was selling flashbulbs, "I TRIED THEM ALL AND THEY ALL POPPED, SO THEY DO WORK!" LOL!!!!!!!!

Oh yes, the famous repaired bulb from Chris Millinship! That's a really good story, although I wish I had the tools and the skill to do that...

I also have my "standard" message for sellers, here's part of it:

Due to the fragile nature of antique lightbulbs, and because they are irreplaceable if they break, I need that you follow these directions for packing, handling and shipping the lightbulb carefully. Failure to obey these guidelines might cause breakage of the filament, which will then cause a refund to be requested or/ appropiate feedback posted. On the contrary, if you use these guidelines correctly AND the item arrives damaged anyway, I will know that it was the post office's fault and I won't bother you for a refund. If the item arrives intact although you did not use the guidelines, I still won't bother you for a refund, but if you do this you take the risk of damaging my item.

I don't force the sellers to use shredded paper or cotton, but if they are to use peanuts, I always ask them not to overfill the box with the stuff so that the bulb can move a bit inside to absorb some of the rough handling. This has proven to work very well, although for international shipments it might be desirable to use better alternatives such as cotton or polyester. Since I pay low amounts for my bulbs (as compared to what many others pay), I usually do not worry that much to the point of paying $10 or more for packing materials + shipping. But if I were to buy a bulb for $100 then I'd surely be forcing the seller to pack with cotton or polyester, I'm sure!

-Yoshi

[Tim]

Ok, here's another bad packing job that came to mind - speaking of tantalum bulbs.

A couple of years ago I won a lot containing something like 20 old bulbs of various age and type.  In this group I spotted four (yes 4!) tantalum bulbs, albeit hard to identify from the crummy pictures posted with the auction.  Amazingly this auction wasn't spotted by anyone else that I can remember and I won the whole group for something like $40.  Anyway when the bulbs arrived I was horrified to see them packed in two clear Zip-Lock type freezer bags.  Each bag contained something like 10 bulbs with nothing separating them inside the bag.  The bulbs were literary touching each other and most likely knocking against each other in transit.  I thought for sure some would have been pulverized but as luck had it, two of the four tantalums had intact filaments and I think the other bulbs survived as well if I remember correctly.  The two with dud filaments looked like they were simply burned out and not damaged by the poor packaging this seller decided to use?

I?m sure I?ll remember more horror stories...


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Tim
Kilokat's Antique Light Bulb Site
Mountain Dew Collectibles, Volume I

[Mónico González]

Hi dear collectors!

Twenty years ago, I ordered four Philips HP 80 watt clear mercury lamps from Barcelona to my home town (Ciudad Real), a travel by road of no more than 800Km (around 500 miles).
No matter what (apparently) softly and carefully were packaged these lamps, but due to vibrations and shocks during transport, one of them was damaged in the way that its stem was partially broken, leaving the frame's thick wires out of the glass, but remaining them connected to dumet sealing wires; so the arc tube structure did remain electrically intact, but it was entirely "hanging" from the stem, giving as a result that the arc tube's upper side did knock against inside outer glass envelope's walls when moving the lamp, virtually "like a bell". This was originated by an inadequate packaging procedure.
Fortunately, I returned the damaged lamp to the supplier's store who did send me a good conditions another without additional costs to me, (unless transportation taxes).

Please, be careful when packing and sending so delicate lamps!

Best regards.

M?nico Gonz?lez.
 http://mis-bombillas.webcindario.com

[ALM]

I've shipped over 100 bulbs in the last 4 years or so... and every one of them arrived intact.

I ROCK!

[ABrightIdea]

quote:Originally posted by Yoshi:
I often wonder if the other collectors who buy those mega rare $100+ lightbulbs do get their lightbulbs intact? Because sometimes the seller is too stupid and mails the bulb via Parcel Post inside a tiny box, even though you instructed him to mail in a large box, via Priority Mail. I HATE IT so much when they do that!!! Do they really think that an antique lightbulb can survive that?! I have yet to give negative feedback to a seller who mailed a bulb to me this way, and incredibly would still NOT give a refund. (btw my bulb didn't cost $100! It costed far less). Well, enough of my story, let's hear yours. How do you prefer your lightbulbs to be packed & shipped? Do you give the seller custom instructions for doing so? I do. Which antique incandescent bulbs do you think are more prone to breakage? I think blackened (but working) 100w cage filament mazdas are the most fragile of all, and I think unused carbon fil. bulbs are highly resistant to rough handling. Let me hear what you think.

Hello Yoshi,

I read your message, I am a fellow collector of Light bulbs etc. I have just invented a mailer box for light bulbs and small antiques. Purchasing a light bulb from 1915 was not very much, but when the person sent me this bulb, He sent two others rattling with it. 1920s Edison Mazda (small) broken... and a 1930s Mazda (medium sized) ok and a very large Mazda National C that has survived. I paid five dollars for each bulb, after this I had to come up with a way to prevent breakage of these awsome collectables. books have been my passion, but light bulbs are what we read by and i started to collect them last year. A few days a go a patent is in the process and a new and safe way for light for sendinding light bulbs will be released next month. Sept. 15, 2003.

Kevin,
President of A Novel

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[bshipinski]

Realizing that the bulbs that I buy are more on the new side, I do buy plenty of them including such things as Xenon followspot lamps at a cost of $400 to $500 each.  Also I buy parts from various manufacturers that have interesting ways of shipping.  This topic is very much of interest to me in that I have many of the same problems such as on a DWE lamp with it?s inner quartz capsule lamp breaking due to shock  - and it must have been a really good shock.   In that case, I can over order just in case.  But with other things, how it ships is important and your above notes I?ll keep in mind.

Thanks for the info on peanuts transferring vibration - I expect that?s with a tight packing, very interesting, I would have thought it would absorb the vibrations due to the shape.  I know fiberglass insultation absorbs sound vibrations due to air space and vibration, perhaps that might be a good packaging material especially since it won?t settle to the bottom.  By the way, Static Guard is really useful for opening boxes with Peanuts.

Given the above XBO2000HS.OFR type lamps I frequently buy, I have never found one broken due to shipping.  Such boxes I get of them have at least that 2" of material between the shipping outer box and the inner box, than the actual lamp has it?s ends encased within a soft foam to absorb shock.  Anywhere from 2" between box and lamp base to 4" depending upon brand, but they all use a soft foam supported by cardboard to support and insulate the lamp.  Granted the fill material between inner box and outer box is at best packing foam if not cut up extruded chunks of foam or newspaper which I hate, but as long as the lamp is incased in granted it?s a factory box with soft foam supporting it, even these very fragile lamps are yet to explode with transport even on road shows in crashing around inside a road box with lots of other things without the outer carton protecting it beyond it?s inner box.  That soft foam protects them well - granted they don?t have filaments.  As long as the box encasing the lamp and foam does not open, the lamps on such things don?t usually have a problem.

The cotton idea is very interesting to me - I just happen to have some laying around from a medical supplier, but I wonder if such 2" soft foam at each end of the lamp within a sturdy inner box might be just as soft in keeping it suspended and vibration resistant.

For our clip lights - the back stage clamp lights used in rock shows, I got really tired of as you all observe reaching my hand into a standard box and coming up with broken lamps surrounded by peanuts.  You would think, - hello, a bare lamp inside packing foam, but most people boxing up lamps won?t?  ?because peanuts and bubble wrap (pain in the rear)  has magical qualities beyond static.  All it takes is one good sized road kill and the lamp settles to the bottom of the box and fully absorbs the vibrations of the bump.

To that end, I ordered boxes for storing my lamps and in my case took OSHA safety yellow tape  marked them as lamps and especially ?do not throw this out? - so that the idiots don?t throw out the shipping boxes for the lamps.  Most shipping companies won?t ship stuff with materials that are un-standard covering them, but UPS on a priority and insured item for the most part would take that yellow gaffers tape box and perhaps spend that extra moment to set the box down after reading the don?t throw the box label.

Than I cut medium hardness foam to fit within the boxes to store the not as fragile clip light lamps for the shows which would live within road boxes in being crashed around steel rigging materials and riding around in a road box in the back of a semi-truck, than that road box crashed down to the floor on  it?s wheels from an on-end position for the truck ride.   Plus roadies pushing the road box and crashing it with lamps inside into everything all the way would be the norm.  With all that, and given I?m primarily using less fragile 40A19/BL/C and 50A19/RS lamps, I?m yet to find any that are broken to any extent.

Of another concept is that of one of my fixture suppliers Altman uses.  Beyond the air pocket packaging bags, they use some kind of foam within a bag that is low in expansion pressure and when it?s activated, it  will expand to conform to the size available without cracking say fragile lenses or components.  That?s the only company I have seen yet that can ship a lens with 100% assurance that it?s not going to crack.  Perhaps in using such things for the material between outer and inner box on the more historic lamps, it might save them.  Such things should be readily available from sources such as U-Line ) www.uline.com  .  The expansion foam packets expanding to seal up and support an inner box with a softer foam should do a really good job of absorbing damage and vibration.  On some stuff I even give it a hard walled or plastic shipping container.

With all the above said, the idea of you trusting someone else to ship your very valuable lamps for you how ever they might, is astounding to me.  Why not ship them your own specially and properly made shipping containers to ship the lamp with?  ?I?ll buy it from you, just ship it after you get my container and follow it?s instructions for use.?

I think the posting on another part of the forum has the right concept in this in designing your own proper shipping method much less containers.  It?s a T-24 lamp with a E-26 base with a MOL of say 42mm.  How hard is it to cut a foam support and get a box for this lamp?  You want to get your lamp encased in cotton, fine but don?t expect anyone on the shipping end to be as smart as you are.  Give them the means to ship it and than it?s only just the fork lifts in shipping that you have to be concerned about.  Insurance and priority shipping plus a few ?glass? ?fragile? labels that you provide should take care of that.  Perhaps for the most fragile types, getting a box that allows the lamp to be encased in liquid might be the best option

Anyway, just a few ideas.  Size of the box they are shipped within has little effect upon actual shipping.  Send the supplier your own box if you want to get it intact.  I have even gone to the extent of shipping suppliers a plywood/lumber foam encased road box for very special fluorescent lamps to keep them in good condition.  You know what you want, why trust others.